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	<title>Comments on: Assessment in a Web 2.0 Environment</title>
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	<description>Aut Inveniam, Aut Faciam</description>
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		<title>By: Soundings: Best Practices in Teaching and Technology &#187; Gardner Campbell&#8217;s ideas on Web 2.0 and Assessment</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2517</link>
		<dc:creator>Soundings: Best Practices in Teaching and Technology &#187; Gardner Campbell&#8217;s ideas on Web 2.0 and Assessment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2517</guid>
		<description>[...] Web 2.0, learning, and assessment: thoughts by Gardner. If any of this intrigues you, here is the audio: http://www.gardnercampbell.net/podcast/assessment.mp3 and here is the blog post: http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Web 2.0, learning, and assessment: thoughts by Gardner. If any of this intrigues you, here is the audio: <a href="http://www.gardnercampbell.net/podcast/assessment.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/podcast/assessment.mp3</a> and here is the blog post: <a href="http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231" rel="nofollow">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2426</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2426</guid>
		<description>Larry points to an extremely important distinction at the beginning of his comment - the Econ department is using assessment for _predictive_ value, not _summative_ value. What would happen if we said that the important thing to evaluate is not how well a student did in this course, but how likely they are to do well further down the road?

While this raises a host of thorny issues, it also would accomplish one of the critical steps in getting people to buy into assessment - the data would be usable and, more importantly, _used_.

(Although it does remind me of the professor in library school who claimed that no student who got a B or higher in her course had ever failed their comps. I got my A, and I passed my comps, but it&#039;s a pretty weird correlation to hang your hat on...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry points to an extremely important distinction at the beginning of his comment &#8211; the Econ department is using assessment for _predictive_ value, not _summative_ value. What would happen if we said that the important thing to evaluate is not how well a student did in this course, but how likely they are to do well further down the road?</p>
<p>While this raises a host of thorny issues, it also would accomplish one of the critical steps in getting people to buy into assessment &#8211; the data would be usable and, more importantly, _used_.</p>
<p>(Although it does remind me of the professor in library school who claimed that no student who got a B or higher in her course had ever failed their comps. I got my A, and I passed my comps, but it&#8217;s a pretty weird correlation to hang your hat on&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: ICTlogy &#187; ICT4D Blog &#187; Funneling concepts in Education 2.0: PLE, e-Portfolio, Open Social Learning</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2398</link>
		<dc:creator>ICTlogy &#187; ICT4D Blog &#187; Funneling concepts in Education 2.0: PLE, e-Portfolio, Open Social Learning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2398</guid>
		<description>[...] this gets more complicated if we take into account assessment or tracking knowledge acquisition along your whole [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this gets more complicated if we take into account assessment or tracking knowledge acquisition along your whole [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lanny Arvan</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2393</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanny Arvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2393</guid>
		<description>When I was a first year grad student in Economics, 1976, I was told by some of the faculty the the GRE Econ exam had no predictive power whatsoever in how students would do in the program (so they didn&#039;t require us to take it) but that the math part of the regular GRE had strong predictive power, so they used that as a primary entry screen and determination on who was to get fellowships.  Within the last five or six years I&#039;ve heard a very similar argument about how students will do in General Chemistry and the math part of the ACT exam.  Why bring this up?  I believe that in certain domains of knowledge you can measure rather deep cognitive understanding (or lack) via the type of tests you&#039;d want us to dispense with.  Even in those areas, however, at some point intelligence becomes about asking good questions rather than providing answers to closed ended problems.  The asking good questions skill I believe is in the realm where meaningful assessment doesn&#039;t come easily.  But I don&#039;t believe you can have that skill if you can&#039;t solve the closed ended problems readily, because if you can&#039;t there is no way to see through issues to what is important to get at.  

If I were to teach an Econ course now I&#039;d evaluate the students in two quite different ways, one as understanding models (and then depending on how advanced the course also on building models of their own) and two on telling stories that relate the models to known economic phenomena.  Engineering students have a reputation about being good with the models but bad with the stories.  Many Business students are just the opposite.  You really need multiple ways of thinking about the economics and I suspect also about many other disciplines.  

One other point.  Accreditation is a reality as are grades (in my ideal world both would go away, but I still believe in the tooth fairy) so there is the real issue of whatever assessment we come up with can it be aggregated in some meaningful way and can we make comparisons across students and across cohorts of students?  For both of these some Likert-style indicators are useful, a necessary evil if you will.  I liked the participant perception indicator that Carl Berger show use some years back.
http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ppi.evaluation.tool/home
It is do-able, a definite plus, can be used in a longitudinal way, and does recognize that multiple dimensions in assessment can be better than reducing everything down to a single dimension.  It does measure attitudes, not performance.  The latter, as you say, is messy to assess in the meaningful cases.   For that I&#039;d prefer to give written feedback.  Maybe we need both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a first year grad student in Economics, 1976, I was told by some of the faculty the the GRE Econ exam had no predictive power whatsoever in how students would do in the program (so they didn&#8217;t require us to take it) but that the math part of the regular GRE had strong predictive power, so they used that as a primary entry screen and determination on who was to get fellowships.  Within the last five or six years I&#8217;ve heard a very similar argument about how students will do in General Chemistry and the math part of the ACT exam.  Why bring this up?  I believe that in certain domains of knowledge you can measure rather deep cognitive understanding (or lack) via the type of tests you&#8217;d want us to dispense with.  Even in those areas, however, at some point intelligence becomes about asking good questions rather than providing answers to closed ended problems.  The asking good questions skill I believe is in the realm where meaningful assessment doesn&#8217;t come easily.  But I don&#8217;t believe you can have that skill if you can&#8217;t solve the closed ended problems readily, because if you can&#8217;t there is no way to see through issues to what is important to get at.  </p>
<p>If I were to teach an Econ course now I&#8217;d evaluate the students in two quite different ways, one as understanding models (and then depending on how advanced the course also on building models of their own) and two on telling stories that relate the models to known economic phenomena.  Engineering students have a reputation about being good with the models but bad with the stories.  Many Business students are just the opposite.  You really need multiple ways of thinking about the economics and I suspect also about many other disciplines.  </p>
<p>One other point.  Accreditation is a reality as are grades (in my ideal world both would go away, but I still believe in the tooth fairy) so there is the real issue of whatever assessment we come up with can it be aggregated in some meaningful way and can we make comparisons across students and across cohorts of students?  For both of these some Likert-style indicators are useful, a necessary evil if you will.  I liked the participant perception indicator that Carl Berger show use some years back.<br />
<a href="http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ppi.evaluation.tool/home" rel="nofollow">http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ppi.evaluation.tool/home</a><br />
It is do-able, a definite plus, can be used in a longitudinal way, and does recognize that multiple dimensions in assessment can be better than reducing everything down to a single dimension.  It does measure attitudes, not performance.  The latter, as you say, is messy to assess in the meaningful cases.   For that I&#8217;d prefer to give written feedback.  Maybe we need both.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Babin</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2392</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Babin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2392</guid>
		<description>As teachers we all want to educate, and we do that. We usually also have to teach the items identified in the curriculum.

Although it is very difficult to assess &quot;education&quot;, it is quite easy to assess if you are meeting the goals of the curriculum.  Yes, very few teachers even make an effort to do so. 

Assessment in a Web2.0 environment is not that different. Web2.0 provides a platform for different assessment methods, activities and reports. But assessment remains quite unchanged.

We should never really worry too much about complexity.  Think of how complex a task it would be to properly compensate someone for their time given that we live only for a short while. Yet something as simple as money does the trick. 

Gilbert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As teachers we all want to educate, and we do that. We usually also have to teach the items identified in the curriculum.</p>
<p>Although it is very difficult to assess &#8220;education&#8221;, it is quite easy to assess if you are meeting the goals of the curriculum.  Yes, very few teachers even make an effort to do so. </p>
<p>Assessment in a Web2.0 environment is not that different. Web2.0 provides a platform for different assessment methods, activities and reports. But assessment remains quite unchanged.</p>
<p>We should never really worry too much about complexity.  Think of how complex a task it would be to properly compensate someone for their time given that we live only for a short while. Yet something as simple as money does the trick. </p>
<p>Gilbert</p>
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		<title>By: Do blogs eat brains? &#171; Soundings: Best Practices in Teaching and Technology</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2365</link>
		<dc:creator>Do blogs eat brains? &#171; Soundings: Best Practices in Teaching and Technology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2365</guid>
		<description>[...] line of thought (connectivism and the undead) fed nicely for me into a blogpost I read this morning as well, from Gardner Campbell.  In discussing how today&#8217;s more complex learning environments require correspondingly more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] line of thought (connectivism and the undead) fed nicely for me into a blogpost I read this morning as well, from Gardner Campbell.  In discussing how today&#8217;s more complex learning environments require correspondingly more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2359</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2359</guid>
		<description>Thanks Gardner. Assessment is about value, and as such is fundamentally in the domain of ethics as I see it. That&#039;s why teaching has to be a profession, with professional, ethical obligation. Of course we say we don&#039;t trust teachers anymore and instead we decide to trust some mathematical formula, regardless of whether or not the formula is any good. Though why we trust the ethics of the formula makers and measurers over the teachers I&#039;m not sure.

The underlying problem, though, as you suggested in your talk, is that learning is not about valuation. It&#039;s not about the knowledge a student can recite. Give me a reliable theory of cognition and maybe we can get to a theory of learning, and maybe, just maybe, we can figure out a way to measure learning. All we do now is some fancy foot work of what I, as a teacher, can represent, through grades, about what I know about what students know at a certain point and time.

There&#039;s no way for anyone to assess what I have learned from listening to your talk. I can&#039;t do it myself. So all we are left with is the ethical obligation to learn from our experiences and seek improvement (i.e. to assess).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Gardner. Assessment is about value, and as such is fundamentally in the domain of ethics as I see it. That&#8217;s why teaching has to be a profession, with professional, ethical obligation. Of course we say we don&#8217;t trust teachers anymore and instead we decide to trust some mathematical formula, regardless of whether or not the formula is any good. Though why we trust the ethics of the formula makers and measurers over the teachers I&#8217;m not sure.</p>
<p>The underlying problem, though, as you suggested in your talk, is that learning is not about valuation. It&#8217;s not about the knowledge a student can recite. Give me a reliable theory of cognition and maybe we can get to a theory of learning, and maybe, just maybe, we can figure out a way to measure learning. All we do now is some fancy foot work of what I, as a teacher, can represent, through grades, about what I know about what students know at a certain point and time.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no way for anyone to assess what I have learned from listening to your talk. I can&#8217;t do it myself. So all we are left with is the ethical obligation to learn from our experiences and seek improvement (i.e. to assess).</p>
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		<title>By: Harry E. Pence</title>
		<link>http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231&#038;cpage=1#comment-2299</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry E. Pence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardnercampbell.net/blog1/?p=1231#comment-2299</guid>
		<description>If Columbus had only drawn a careful map of exactly where he planned to go, he would have had far less difficulty getting there, - - - 
but while he was figuring it out the New World would have been discovered by someone else.  

In order to create accurate assessment, it would seem to be essential to know where education should go in the coming decade.  Everyone who can predict the future please hold up their hands.  Anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Columbus had only drawn a careful map of exactly where he planned to go, he would have had far less difficulty getting there, &#8211; - &#8211;<br />
but while he was figuring it out the New World would have been discovered by someone else.  </p>
<p>In order to create accurate assessment, it would seem to be essential to know where education should go in the coming decade.  Everyone who can predict the future please hold up their hands.  Anyone?</p>
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